Friday August 29, 2008
News
Our New Union? You Decide. · Issue 870
After several weeks of rumours, the official plans for the long term future of the Students’ Union are now online at www.cardiffstudents.com. The SU has stated that these are not the final blueprints, and that they are open to students’ feedback
The ground floor
The ground floor of the Students’ Union is currently home to the Letting Agency, Job Shop, Endsleigh Insurance and Blackwells book shop.
In the new plans the corridor which runs through the present mall will be removed and the retail units will be expanded and extended up to the pavement.
The new entrance will provide a single access point to the Union from Sengenhydd Road. In the consultations with the architects, the Sabbatical Officers were keen to create an SU that was not laid out in such a confusing way. This single entrance from Sengenhydd Road is part of the plan to overcome this.
The plan also suggests the development of the SU on the ground floor of Park Place, where there will be new retail space in this area and Cardiff Information Direct. This will be a ‘one stop shop’ concept where students can go when they are in need of information about the University or Students’ Union.
Students may be concerned over the increase in retail units as the union currently has several empty retail units in the mall. SU President, Jonny Cox commented: “The only reason we have empty retail space is because of the uncertainty around the building redevelopment. In recent years we have only been able to offer those wanting retail space two year contracts. Obviously people aren’t willing to do this as refitting retail space can be expensive. Therefore retailers have been wanting 5-10 years worth of commitment which we haven’t been able to give. Once we are able to give this commitment we will have no trouble attracting retailers.”
The glass fronted foyer will revamp the front of the SU. The foyer will become much brighter and will open up the current ’70s brick design.
+ more retail space
The first floor
The most dramatic change to the first floor is the removal of CF10, the Union Shop and the IT Shop. These areas will be replaced with ‘social learning and network space’.
The removal of CF10 as we know it will not mean that there will be no food provision in the new SU. The ‘social learning and network spaces’ will have food and drink services available. There are also plans to include a staircase from Blackwells to the ‘social learning and network space’ on this floor.
The Union Shop and IT Shop will continue to operate in the new SU, but will move to one of the new retail units in another part of the SU.
On the Park Place side of the building there will be more retail space and another area for ‘social learning and network space’.
+ ‘social learning and network space’
- CF10
The second floor
Currently the second floor is home to the Taf, Solus, Reception and SU staff offices. This will change significantly in the new plans.
The main reception area for the SU will remain where it is at present. The Taf will be replaced with an open plan office for the sabbatical officers and will also house an area for societies, AU and SVC. By moving the sabbatical officers to this location the SU hopes the officers will be more accessible to students. The AU, SVC and societies will gain a great deal of space to operate from in this area, which will benefit these student activities greatly. Jonny Cox is keen to make clear that although the Taf will cease to exist as we know it “there will be plenty of bar provision for our students.”
gair rhydd reported two weeks ago about the commercial development of the Junction Bar into a multi-purpose venue that can be utilised both day and night. These plans reveal that the area will become ‘social learning and network space’ which is in line with the recent commercial developments. This space will extend onto a sun deck which will be open for students. Further ‘social learning and network space’ will be included behind reception also.
As the plans show, Solus will decrease in size significantly. The club will also be a bar and conference facility. The decrease in size can be attributed to the declining numbers at Union club nights. Jonny Cox commented on the decline in attendance: “It’s a national problem that is getting worse and worse and there is no prediction for the situation to recover.” The Union will never be able to compete with the clubs in town that invest millions into their establishments as the Union does not have the finances to do so. But Cox explained that there are other reasons for making Solus smaller: “We need to match what we provide as a Union to the requirements of the different demographics of our students. That was the driving factor behind the changes. We need to remember that this Union is going to take eight years to redevelop and it will then have to be suitable for students 20 years on.”
+ ‘social learning and network space’, more student activity space, sabbatical offices
- Taf, smaller Solus
The third floor
The third floor is going to receive quite a revamp, with these plans making the Advice and Representation Centre (ARC), Student Development Unit (SDU) and Student Media Centre more accessible and larger.
These three services are particularly key services offered by the SU and the Students’ Union are committed to promoting these services so as to benefit students. All of these services will be more visible for students and will make them more approachable and able to be utilised to their maximum potential.
The Games Room will be replaced by new staff offices that have been moved because of the developments on the second floor. By bringing all the SU staff together in one area, the Union hopes to improve communication and become more effective. The loss of the Games Room will affect the Snooker Club who run their tournaments from the current facility. Cox stated to gair rhydd that although there will not be snooker tables, there will be pool tables in ‘social learning and network spaces’ and that the SU will work with clubs to ensure they “can continue with their good work.”
The Graduate Centre will also see developments into a ‘graduate social learning and network centre’ similar to those in the rest of the Students’ Union.
More ‘social learning and network space’ will be incorporated into the third floor plans where the TV lounge is currently located.
+ more space for ARC, SDU, Student Media
- Games Room
The fourth floor
The fourth floor currently houses Student Media and meeting rooms.
The new plans will see greater space on the fourth floor devoted to meeting rooms. These meeting rooms will be available to use by all students involved with societies and clubs. The current provision is insufficient for the student needs and so this is a much needed addition to the Union.
The inclusion of the larger gym will utilise the currently empty roof space and will provide greater gym facilities on campus. It is currently uncertain as to who will run the gym – the University or external sources.
+ more meeting rooms, gym
What is ‘social learning and network space’?
The term ‘social learning and network space’ has been bandied around on these pages, but what exactly will the space involve? Is it a good thing? Is it a bad thing? Do people want this sort of space? And will it really bring in a more diverse variety of students to the SU?
Social learning and networking environments will make up about 2.3 square kilometres of the new building, which accounts for somewhere between 15-20% of usable floor space.
According to cardiffstudents.com, “A social learning environment is a flexible space that can be used by any of our students throughout the day for any purpose, whether it be working, socialising or just relaxing!”
SU President Jonny Cox has commented on the Facebook group ‘Our Union, Our Vote’ that these spaces would be “light, clean environments with big sofas, tables, pool tables, food and drink provision, wi-fi, big bean bags (sounds mad, but they have them in Edinburgh and they’re awesome!)”
“This space could then be used as a social space, a learning space, a networking space, a relaxing space… whatever you so wish (within the law).”
So to clarify, these spaces could include desks, large sofas, tables, bean bags, laptop plug-in points, coffee shops and bars serving alcohol, but not necessarily all of these at the same time. As a result, they will provide a flexible space for students who wish to socialise, work, drink, or do all three at the same time.
Critics of these spaces may ask whether they will actually be used. Will people want to read and study in what could essentially be another bar? It could also be argued that the criteria are very vague at present, and there are no concrete proposals for what they actually will include (as opposed to what they could include) if they’re introduced. As there have been no trials of these spaces in the Union, some might suggest that to allocate so much space for this is overly ambitious at this point.
Particular issues have been raised with regard to the ‘social learning’ aspect of these spaces. Jonny Cox stressed to gair rhydd that these spaces are not just for learning: “In retrospect we should have chosen a more appropriate title for these spaces that was more representative of what these spaces could be.”
Share your opinions on the ‘social learning and network space’ by emailing
SUBuildingDevelopment@cardiff.ac.uk
See the plans at http://www.cardiffstudents.com/your_union/building-plans
i have to say im disappointed the taf is going. I dont want another sulless (solusesque) bar, the taf has, if very little, at least a pinch of atmosphere. And the significant reduction of solus just shows how little the Union seems to care about competing with other venues. We could lose the great hall, a lot of solus and the taf.Surely that is a bit much?
The ideas proposed here seem slightly extreme!
There is plenty of space for working all around the university campus, so why should this ‘working environment’ be enflicted on one of few student social areas, where we go to have fun and get away from all of the work we have to do!
As for getting rid of the taf, CF10, the games room and minimising Solus; the union is turning into a quiet study area! I would like to know what will be replacing CF10 as a small events venue. And will we still have the relaxed student pub environment that the taf provides, not to mention the karaoke!
Lets face it, in the ‘social learning and network space’ is any work actually going to get done whilst surrounded by drinking students and pool tables?! I very much doubt it.
I vote for no change.
I am also disappointed with the taf being removed. The taf is probably the one thing I actually use within the union, it’s where most of my nights out start! It has a fantastic atmosphere, and it is cheap. I think the union officials need to seriously reconsider!
I think these plans are the worst thing that could happen to the SU. They’re removing the best things about the union and replacing it with things that no one really cares about.
It’s hard to get enthusiastic about a room full of bean bags, tables and power sockets for laptops.
Join the Facebook group “Outrage at the new SU Plans”
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17182301986
I completely disagree with these plans!
The removal of the Taf, CF10 and downsizing Solus are shockingly bad ideas?! Solus gets rammed enough on certain nights that downsizing is insane! The Taf is loved by all Cardiff students, why would you want to aggravate us all by removing it?! and CF10 actually provides nice cheap food for the students, unlike many of the cafes in each department building.
As for the gym, ok the idea is good but what is the point when there is a perfectly good gym just a few doors down? Wasted space if you ask me!
I think many students would be unhappy with these plans and surely the whole idea of the Student Union is to provide us our own space???
These ideas are ridiculous as the Union should be for entertainment as well as working, and removing the Taf for extra “social networking space” and sabbatical offices will only stop people using the Students’ Union. While I strongly agree that more working areas are needed, I do not believe this is the right place to locate this.
Why was this not brought up in more detail at the AGM? Was it because the committee knows that very few people in the university would not want this to happen? If this is the case, this is not a democratically run Students’ Union.
Seriously, save The Taf!
I also don’t understand why the complete removal of the snooker tables is necessary. If they’re regularly used by students, including members of the Snooker Club, then why can’t they be relocated? A mixture of pool and snooker tables seem more appropriate here, although I assume there’s a reason for the proposal?
If all the students are so keen to save the taf why is it empty for the majority of the time it is open, both day and night?
Also, Solus as an area is used 16 hours a week, and we’re lucky if its full one night a week.
I’m not trying to push anything, all we can go on is recent figures. The areas are under utilised as just bars at the moment. By making the spaces multi-functional areas those who want to drink, and those who don’t, will have somewhere to go and a reason to use the union.
I can’t say personally I’m all that bothered since I don’t use the Taf or Solus, nonetheless the measures proposed do seem a little strange to say the least. I can understand why the Union would wish to scale back Solus into more of a bar/relaxation area, in fact I argued for such a change because Solus can’t compete with clubs in town. However I don’t see why the Union is moving away from alcohol sales, which generates most of the Union’s income, I see no reason to get rid of CF10, the Taf and Solus and turn the Union into something resembling a library. One is forced to wonder if any particular society or social group within the University and Student Union were particularly focal in lobbying the Union to move away from an alco-centric Union building to a learning centric one. Anything to say, Johnny?
Is anyone really going to want to work somewhere where people will be drinking, though? It seems like these plans are putting profit over what people want. Just because the Taf isn’t always full doesn’t mean it has no useful purpose.
Mark – no-one forced this through. The plans were carefully considered and they were formulated with the best interests of all our 25,000 students. They have been formulated on past research and consultation, the process has been ongoing for many years.
Please if you have concerns come and talk to me in my office on the 3rd floor of the Union.
I am not defending these plans, merely explaining the reasons they look the way do.
This is a consultation process, so please feed into the process and e-mail the SUBuildingDevelopment address.
Who’s idea is this?
Is it the elected executive flexing their muscle or the shady and money grabbing ‘order’ that actually run the union?
Elected officials – we voted you in to stand up for the students of Cardiff University. Do the right thing and quash these plans now. Otherwise, you’re basically cowardly pawns.
I’m not normally prompted to write so strongly about issues but this one I certainly am. Jonny Cox writes “We need to remember that this Union is going to take eight years to redevelop and it will then have to be suitable for students 20 years on.” If it is going to be a union for 20 years on no offence but re-vamp it, give it a make over but don’t destroy it so no students want to even bother going there. Nobody goes to Solus not because it is not a good night out but because it needs refurbishment not minimising. The Taf bar is to go as well? Who are these sabatical officers until this I’ve not only never heard of them let alone them participating in the running and overall experience of the union. The Taf is the only place for pre-lash close to Solus and the only place with a slight atmosphere. These new spaces for netwroking etc. have these people never heard of library’s? It is very rare that these working spaces are ever full or that students don’t have network points in there room or houses to work, there is no reason why more study places are needed. The only positive is a place for societies and the AU apart from that this whole plan is ridiuclous and frankly crap. The union is supposed to be for studnets not for the aged, boring, all I want to do is study type students. If they had our best interests at heart they had better start listening and consulting us as students because they have failed to do so in these proposed plans. Get rid of the people who have made this terrible blunder.
The last 4 years of Union executives have fed into the formulation of these plans.
I resent being called a cowardly pawn, when all I have ever done is represent the 25,000 students of Cardiff University to the best of my ability.
If you have any concerns about how we as an executive are running the Union then please come and talk to me about it or come to student council (where students hold us to account every 2 weeks).
Incase you didnt know, people who can access the union, do access it. some of us live in talybont and its a bit of a trek to get there. In the past week alone ive been to the solus and spent my moneys worth in the games room and cf 10. Im not really sure how this went forward. the students could have been told and been able to voice their opinion. if you want a library, walk out the union and cross the road. im pretty sure no one will fail to miss the huge elaborately designed building that is the main building. i agree with others saying it just needs a revamp thats it. to know that the money earned by it is to go change it into something completely different thats ruins the meaning of ‘student union’, is not right. Jonny Cox, i can feel that you might be being scapegoated, so all i urge is to please try and tell them that a vast majority of the 25,000 students you represent are against this. i hope things can come to a balance.
As far as I can see, these plans are purely about wringing every drop of profit out of the union, rather than actually catering for what the students need or want.
I agree with the plans for Solus and Buffers; the overheads must be enormous, and the reason people go elsewhere is because the venue needs a serious revamp. Similarly the new gym, because we desperately need one.
As for the rest of the plans, they smack heavily of having been dreamed up in a boardroom by some accursed ‘focus group’ made up of stuffed suits that have never been to University. The idea of getting rid of CF10 is ludicrous, loads of the Union’s own societies use it for their own events as a small venue, and it represents the only place anywhere near the union where you can get good food for good value. I can guess already what the ‘replacement’ would consist of; more bloody Ginsters rubbish.
While the Taf’s layout isn’t perfect, the fact that it is a pleasant and relaxing venue during the day and a busy bar to meet for a pre-night out drink in the evening means that I have never met a student who doesn’t go there. I have no idea what the reference to it being empty all the time is about, evidently you dont spend much time down there.
My main objection to getting rid of the games room is that there are no plans to replace it. The proposal admits that it’s going to completely ruin the Snooker Club’s games, and then says it will be ok, because there will be pool tables. Pool tables?? Since when is snooker like pool?? What kind of proposal for ‘improvements’ simply removes facilities without replacing them? The games room was put there in the first place because some people want to be able to take their games seriously. I’d love to see the reaction of our own esteemed president and the AU if they suggested removing Llanrumney pitches, suggesting the Uni go play on Pontcanna.
As for this means-nothing, frankly vomit-inducing term ‘social learning and network space’, enough other people have complained about it to make a further comment unnecessary. It’s a phrase someone has invented because they can then make it sound good to anyone; they can promise people it’ll be whatever they want it to be to gain their support, and then it’ll turn out to be none of them. These ‘spaces’ are trying to please everyone, and will end up satisfying no one.
I mostly agree with the above comment.
I only go to Solus on monday nights but outside of exam season this it is always really busy, but fair enough if the bar takings dont cover the cost of opening it. If they do however why not keep it this cheap on wednesdays and fridays too?
Every time ive been in the taff its always had people in it, even after an exam in the middle of the day. Same goes for CF10 which i regularly use. Its been central to society events ive helped put on this year.
I guess if these new plans will make more money for the union with all the new retail areas, then thats nice.
The provision of new learning space is a joke. The library has always been fine for me and everyone I know, but maybe im wrong and they’ll want to go revise more effectively in a bar over a game of pool sitting on a bean bag.
Hurray for future networking spaces. Im not sure i know what your trying to get at with all those ‘network spaces’. Call them what they are: they sound like the games room with bean bags at the moment?
What a pile of bollocks. That’s about as elegant i can get…
There’s not really a need for attacks on the sabbatical officers. If you don’t like what you get, use your votes differently next time.
The people who stay calm and express their wishes in a well-thought-out email to that address for suggestions/complaints e.t.c., are more likely to be taken seriously than those who have a dig at the sabbs!
‘Don’t panic, Captain Manwairing!’
Why would you kill the taf??It’s such a social place. In reference to Cox’s comment,it’s not just a place to enjoy drinking-it is a place to meet new people and feel involved in the university atmosphere. i think it is especially important for first year students, as it’s common ground for everyone.
I’m frankly outraged. It seems like some sort of bad joke! Removing all the good areas of a building and extending the bad ones?
The taf? Empty?
I just got home from the Taf, FA Cup final, couldn’t move it was so busy!
And every time I go there outside of exam time (which is at least once a week) it is also very busy. It has a great atmosphere; great prices. It’s the best thing about the Union!
And Solus, I’ve lost count of how many times I haven’t been able to go to Come Play as it has sold out. As far as I can see Wednesday night is the only night that has ‘died’, and I’m sure this can be improved with better management. I personally thought the ‘Spin’ idea was very good, made my night a lot more enjoyable when I went to Solus on the recent ‘Drink the Bar Dry’ (which was another huge mistake, putting it a week before the end of term when people still had lectures and deadlines?!)
I totally agree with Ciaran (above), how is it an improvement if your just removing a games room?
Every comment on here is critical and against these plans, except Jonny Cox, who, if these plans go ahead, I quite clearly wasted a vote on.
Ok, so looking at what everyone has said here, people want a bar that is JUST a bar, no other function: they want to ensure there are still snooker tables available in the Union: they want space societies can rent out and they want to ensure that there is still good food provision?
As for social learning/networking spaces (yes, not an ideal name) over the next few days I’m going to compile a list of where they have them in other unions and get back to everyone with some information from other students about how they’re used.
These are horrible plans, I really don’t think that a ‘social network and whatever’ space is a productive use in our union, I really can’t think of that many people who will use it, maybe freshers and a few international students but what about 2nd/3rd/4th/5th years?
Ok solus is getting a bit empty, but where’s the unions fight?
I really don’t see the reasons for getting rid of the Taff or the great Hall.
Firstly the Taff is hardly ever short of trade, also what on earth is a student union without a decent bar? What are freshers going to think if they get here and are told, no sorry no bar forget it. Go to town. It’s not exactely encouraging people to be part of the university community is it? The great Hall is used a lot, where are all the gigs going to go? I think it is the one thing our union has got going for it, the fact it can attract big named alternative bands.
Also why are you not replacing CF10? It’s the one place I know I can go in an hours break and be served hot food in time to get back for lectures. It’s not like many of our other cafes serve hot food..
I like the shop plans but someone has made a big mistake with the rest of it, I really think they will only serve to isolate cardiff students, not bring them together.
Holly, I’m very concerned that you feel you wasted a vote on me. Please call me on 02920 781425 on Monday and we can arrange a chat about your worries.
If the city of Cardiff loses The Point and The Great Hall, unless another similar-sized venue springs up from the ground, medium-sized bands will surely either be forced into lower capacity venues, making it harder for people to get tickets, or echoing about in the likes of the CIA, which will be harder to fill! Oh dear.
I’m going to shut up now, as I guess these things must have been thought about.
Like the idea of a revamped student media centre though, and yes please Jonnny, somewhere societies can rent out, like CF10 atm is a must – Comedy Club and LMS events are two things that brighten up essay-filled weeks.
One question, whilst still thinking about the Union: What do people call the room on the third floor, with the tables and chairs, coffee machine and television? Is that a bit like these Social Learning and Network Space thingys might be, or am I imagining the wrong sort of thing?
Right, revision is calling.
I’m not sure why people think we are losing the Great Hall. Last years AGM passed a motion that allowed the University to use the Great Hall as a lecture theatre for a limited number of days a week. At this years AGM we passed a motion that ensures the University can only have this for 2 and a half consecutive days a week.
For the other 4 and a half days a week it is our Great Hall and we can continue to use it to put on quality gigs.
There is not enough study space around exam times – there is no 24 hour study room (except in the Heath), apart from the small (packed) computer room in the Main Building. This does not, however, mean that this should be subsidised by the Students’ Union. Can’t the officers be more productive by lobbying for more areas in the libraries, etc.
Reasons for the decline in Solus attendance also need to be looked at – maybe if it was cheaper (free?) to get in on all nights it may help, or only opening it 3 nights a week instead of 4? Or even revamping it’s appearance inside. Please don’t put people before profits.
And as for moving the offices down a floor..that’s a joke, right?! As I said before, if this is truely a democratically-run union, why was this not announced and voted on in the AGM?
I stand corrected, big up the Great Hall. :)
Agree with the posts below, don’t want to see x got rid of, why y? etc.
Mainly, what is a ‘social networking space’ and why do we need such a large amount of them at the cost of the few things in the union that the vast amount of us drunken students actually use? Not just as consumers, but also the availability of Solus and CF10 as places for us to create our own events and gain experience and pride in doing something worthwhile.
What a stupid plan!!!!
I agree that the union could definitely do with a bit of a revamp, especially to the incredibly dated exterior. However, getting rid of CF10, the games room and the Taf is ridiculous; they are the only things in the SU that we actually use!
SAVE THE TAF!!!!!!!!!!
It’s the TV Lounge, Rachel. It’s probably a good example of what Social Learning Space would be like, and no one uses it to work in now because it’s got a TV in it. Now imagine what it would be like with more distractions and you’ve got an idea of how thriving a Social Learning Space would be.
“There is not enough study space around exam times – there is no 24 hour study room (except in the Heath), apart from the small (packed) computer room in the Main Building. This does not, however, mean that this should be subsidised by the Students’ Union. Can’t the officers be more productive by lobbying for more areas in the libraries, etc.”
There is 10 acres of land in Maindy Road belonging to the University currently unused.
Also, the Union – though it shouldn’t have to – could perhaps provide a room or two for somewhere to work, but 2000 square metres is excessive, and putting it in the same room as somewhere to drink is just stupid. No one will use it.
i can’t believe what i’ve just read. it sounds terrible to be honest. getting rid of OUR space in order to create more offices and meeting rooms.it’s not right. did anyone even consult any students before coming up with these plans? i’m sure students would rather have a decent bar and nightclub than more offices for sabbatical officers. The whole idea of a ‘social learning and network space’ seems totally impractical, you don’t go to the union to do work, you go there to get away from it!
Hey, When visiting Cardiff union for many open day’s, and going to the union for nights out when I used to visit friends, before i actually went to the university, the union sold it to me! Solus is a great asset that the university supplies, plus you know it’s only going to be students there which means no scary big angry men or angry women!! and also no scary women trying to sell you rose’s for your imaginary lady friend!!
I honestly don’t think there is need for change, there are plenty of places accessable to everyone for learning, going on a computer, or reading papers etc..the union doesn’t have to be turned into a large libary/bar does it?! Really?! Just sound’s like a bad idea to me…who started this change anyways?? i’d love to meet the people who honestly think the union needs change?? it seems to me like economic opportunity is high on the agenda instead of letting students decide what their students union should be like!
cheers
So a library in a pub then? Or watching television in a coffee shop?
In theory then, it could be:
Talking to friends
+
Coffee
+
Coursework
+
Internet/Facebooking
+
Food
+
Beanbags/sofas
+
Alcohol
+
Pool Tables?
Students are quite good multi-taskers but even I can’t cope with all of that at once, so I am inutterably confused, (but then I’m not exceptionally bright.) My current source of confusion though is this, that these facilities are currently provided for us by means of:
The Games Room, CF10, The Taf, the libraries and the TV Lounge!
Some space for ‘SLAN’ areas sounds like a plan, but why can’t they be used in conjunction with a little rennovation of current facilities?
I may be old-fashioned, but if it ain’t all that broke, why fix it?
I am currently working on a 24 hour working room. I have so far got the University to identify an area and they are now looking at the finances behind creating the area. Every meeting I have with the VC I try and apply more pressure to get this done quicker.
There are other unions in the UK who have these areas and they do work and they are busy. Like I said I will compile a little report on these ASAP.
But if you still don’t like them – thats what a consultation process is all about!
After having read the above comments I disagree more and more with the new development plans.
Yes we want the taf to stay as the taf, or at least an exclusive pub which isn’t a place where people choose to do university work.
I also disagree with the solus plans. There have been many nights where I have ended up buying a ticket from someone because it’s been sold out. The weeks of come play before exams were constantly full. It seems the union is niggling at straws in an attempt to revamp wednesday nights, but just because students have discovered better offers in town on a wednesday doesn’t mean every other night is suffering! I definately think, with regards to the taf and solus, we like it as it is!
Yes solus would benefit from a bit of a revamp, and more seating in the taf would be fantastic. But completely losing these areas won’t prove well with current students.
Being a first-year, one of the big clinchers that led me to come to Cardiff was the union facilities as a social area to drink ad have a good night out, but with choice of the taf, cf10, solus or the great hall. New students will be strongly influenced by the union when deciding to come to Cardiff so what is the need in changing it from an area of fun, to another area of working and offices.
It’s understandable that sabbatical officers etc require offices, but is it really necessary for them to replace the ever popular taf. I’m sure if someone requires a meeting with an officer, it won’t be too difficult for them to walk up a flight of stairs.
Ok, I feel inclined to comment here, as I represent the majority of snooker playing people in the university (I hesitate to mention those as just members of the Snooker Club, of which I am President, as a huge amount of non-members play on the non-club tables in the Games Room).
The Games Room is often full, with no free pool or snooker tables, so how is this underused? The central location of the Games Room is perfect for popping up for a game of snooker or pool between lectures, or even for those who aren’t in halls and live around Cathays/live in local halls, easy access at any time.
Also, I’ve noted when showing prospective students around the Union that they’re generally impressed by the Games Room. Why take it away from them?
It’s also the cheapest place to get a decent game of snooker on a decent table locally. Rileys is, to be frank, extortionate, and the Snooker Club couldn’t afford to run out of there. In any case, we’d get less people willing to trek down there, so we’d most likely be forced out of existance, as Huw has mentioned in his article.
Snooker is already a minority sport, and we’re the only university Snooker club in Wales. If it weren’t for us, there would be no Wales BUSA Home Nations team, and very few (if any) students here would get the chance to play competitively. It would be a huge shame if we were to fold.
What would the football or rugby club say if you got rid of their facilities? Oh, wait, you wouldn’t, because lots of people like football and rugby…
The same, in my opinion, can be said of the rest of the changes to the rest of the Union, this being said as a normal student, and not just a Snooker Club member. Personally I prefer it when the Taf is quiet, but I never seem to be able to get a seat. Underused, how? Some nights, it’s jam packed.
The whole thing seems to be geared towards “social learning” – now, I returned the survey and don’t remember mentioning anything about wanting to learn in the Union – I go there to get a break from that sort of thing.
Make of that what you will, but I feel, as, it would appear, many others do, that getting rid of the best parts of our Union is madness – now, what can we do to prevent this?
I know I won’t be around to see all of this come to fruition, but I would like to see future students having a decent Union, like we do now.
I agree the union could do with a lick of paint, especially Solus. But I can’t help thinking when i read the plans ‘If it ain’t broke don’t fix it’.
The idea for the retail space on the ground floor is ok, but everything else needs another look.
First of all, why get rid of CF10? It is used by societies to put on all kinds of events. We had a christmas party there last year which attraced over 300 students, the bar made over £1400 and we won an award at the societies awards last month.
As for the Taf and Solus, if revenues are down then they need to be made more attractive venues for students, they need to compete, not to just lay down and die.
The thing that has me most skeptical tho is this ‘social learning space’. In short, if you want to learn, go to the library, if you want to socialise, go to the pub. As has been mentioned before people in there trying to study will find it very hard to do so whilst surrounded by chatting students and that god awful indie music everyone worships.
You mention that this kind of thing is done at other unions, but with respect they are not repeatedly voted as being the best student union in the country. The reason Cardiff union is so good is that it offers so much. But with these plans I can see it offering far less and being filled with empty rooms and bean bags.
It is very sad to see these plans. The Taf and CF10 are the only places I regularly go to within the Union, without them I would not bother going.
Also ‘social learning and networking’? The humanities cafe is where I go if I want to study with friends; a place with bean bags is not conducive to study!
My idea of a good union is one where you can go to escape the work side of university and just relax. With these new plans you’ll go for a drink and then see people writing essays and revising. That’s not relaxing!
Lets keep the Taf and CF10 please!
The union is where we go between lectures and labs to relax and not have to think about working. I spend a hell of alot of time in the taf with my friends and like many other people probably wouldn’t go to the union that much if it wasn’t there. Also the games room is the only place where you can find a snooker table or a pool table without an significant role in the general area of the union so i dont agree with scrapping the games room. The union is meant to be about providing some leisure time for students as well as helping with study etc.
i think the plan to downsize solus is a sensible one though, i’ve been a couple of times lately and its barely been half full, saying that it was the start of the revision period so im not sure what its like normally.
I think the new plans will mean that the union will lose money hand over fist.
The main income in the union is from solus and the taf. Reducing the size will reduce the capacity and thus reduce the income. Has this been looked into?
To be attractive to people the union needs more social activities. Removing the pool room isn’t good. We need a break from studying too! I think the networking space sounds ok, I just hope they’re going to put a kettle and microwave in too!
The union does need to be more open but I think the issue of people not knowing about the union could easily be solved by just having tours for new students!
I’m hoping there will be more windows added too. I suffer from mild SAD and thus love as much natural light as I can get my eyeballs on!
It would’ve been nice to see the union set up a forum for this and discuss it with the students as they’ve gone along. It would have saved time and money with the designers.
I admit I haven’t read this weeks gair rhydd, but just looking at the headlines I think they’re to blaim for all this uproar! It’s a bit over dramatised.
Jonny, might I suggest you set up a meeting in the Great Hall after exams to address this in person and explain things properly. Might make life easier for yourself!
It seems to me that some of these plans are obviously not what students want. Im not sure what the outcome of the student satisfaction survey was but im sure any of this cant have been on any of the feedback sheets. The ‘social learning and networking space’ seems useless. I fail to see what sort of ‘learning’ can go on there, in what essentially is being described as a (quite rubbish) bar. If people want to learn the libraries are the ideal locations and the money should be invested in these areas to make them better for working in. Some of the libraries in cardiff uni are poorly laid out for quiet work, with few areas set out for learning and revising. The arts and social sciences library is good, but others need to follow suit. As for getting rid of the taf and the games room, im not sure what thats going to benefit anyone. Surely thats going to reduce the numbers of people going to the union, not increase them. The union should be a center where students can come together to relax and have fun. Im not sure that filling it solely with tables and chairs will do that. Instead what they should be doing is expanding and rejuvenating the taf, solus and the games room so that students can enjoy their union, and feel proud of it. On a positive note, the plans for retail space and the bottom floor seem an improvement, but i feel that the plans for the other rooms need to be improved
I can understand some of the thinking behind these plans, but let’s not plan too far ahead and in the process ruin the student experience for current students.
Let’s be honest, students are always going to want to drink (often to excess :p) and socialise with their friends. The Taff isn’t the best layout, and it certainly lacks seating for the amount of students it often has to hold, but i’d rather have it than no student bar at all.
I for one love a pint with friends, and am not always in the mood to go to a club with loud music where i can hardly hear myself think.
If the area where the Taff is must be used for offices, then provide us a nice new pub with more seating and a beer garden/balcony if you please ;) Alot of my friends go to the Pen and Wig or Woody, purely as the Taff lacks a beer garden so your stuck inside even in good weather, apart from the two “smokers tables” outside at the moment.
Also Solus has provided some of the most memorable nights of my university life so far, and friends that have visited me from Uni’s all around the country have been very jealous, and rightly so! Having a large dedicated nightclub is something we should be proud of, and make more of a big deal over. I still find £3.50 entry (in advance) is a little too much for a student venue, but i have and will continue to willingly pay it.
It’s a self perpetuating cycle, i was going to to go AAA this friday, but my coursemates informed me that last week there were around 40 people in there, so i didn’t bother..one less person again!
Solus needs a decent revamp over the Summer, a change of DJ to stop the same playlist being used, and some new drinks promotions. Bar FTSE and Roulette are fantastic ideas, and are something that the so called “Super-clubs” in town just can’t compete with for sheer fun with your mates.
I can see the logic in having Junction as a food prep area in the daytime, and with a glass wall and balcony it would be a lovely place to eat. As long as it is vacated by 10pm so we can use it as usual for part of Solus, it doesn’t affect me at all.
Our union is one of the best in the country, not just for its drinking provision (allthough that is pretty good). We should be work to improve on what we have, and not simply “get rid of it” as it isn’t being fully utlised, let’s not take the easy option out and actually work to get Solus and the Taff popular once more.
Reading the arcticle in the paper today made me think about my first impressions of cardiff. 1 of the major attractions for me was the union and how is was always a hive of attivity. it had its own bar, niteclub and even a seperate venue to hold gigs for well known, up-and-coming bands.
When i first got here it was just as gd if not better (until the duck died). yes it was a bit dated, needed some paint here and there but it still had atmosphere.
These current proposals will not add to the union/university but detract from it.
The TAF is a great everyday social spot and perfect for meetin mates before headin to solus or wherever. When i have been to solus, which was often, it was always been packed (apart from the last few ducks).
As for the games room it is a great alternative to a loud, busy and boozy venue where u can relax and play some pool or snooker.
‘SLAN’ areas seem like a waste of space and if money is high on the list of reasons for these proposals then I would like to know how dedicating such a large portion of the union to a non profiting facility such as these will help.
Personally i think that if u want to study stay in or go to the library. And yes i hear those shouting we need somewhere where we can go and study as a group… well ask the uni to provide more group study areas such as that planned at Trevithick library. What about 24hr study areas?? Well again at Trevithick there is 2/3 computer rooms available 7days a wk 24hrs a day!
I also dont see the point in moving all the offices down a floor. the logical solution for me would be, if the offices have to be moved, move them to where the gym is now and move the gym into the union. this would allow a larger and more spacious gym aswell as the offices being in a quiet well located building next to the union.
I feel as though these plans have the right intentions but have been ill thought in a rush to satisfy a few demanding questions.
Nightlife at the Union
When making my Uni choices I didn’t think ‘I’d love to go to a Uni with a modern study hall’, the first thing that came to mind was the nightlife. When visiting/applying Cardiff the Union was busy most nights with a good feel. Last year was always going to be busier on a wednesday (thanks to the cancellation of IMG rugby this season) so the death of Duck isn’t that much of a suprise but the tumbleweed on saturdays is a bit of a shock. The union seems to think the launch of a new night on wednesdays is the answer to bringing numbers up, it’s not.
Comeplay and the other nights need some better promotion. When is the last time you found yourself being thrusted a comeplay flyer or had the AAA crew chat to you about the night? My guesses is not for a long time. I’m not saying you need to cut down a forest to make a truck of flyers but atleast make an effort! The union nights can’t carry themselves on just the name they need promo and if the union teams can’t be bothered then how about getting in a promo company that can. How often do you get a Rough hill promoter on your doorstep telling you about the night, most weeks I would of thought. It’s the same for bounce and for digital, last flyer received was 3 days ago and last run in with an oceana promoter was just over a week ago! Even Jaks a venue that has been dead for a long time is still making the effort!
Last few comments on Union nights.
Online ticketing; how about investing in a site that works to prevent students turning up and not being allowed in.
Signing in non students: the system doesn’t work! When is the last time you went to a night out and had to sign your friends in (be careful maximum of two mates though?!) or had to pay a couple of quid on top for no NUS?? STA travel and other companies accept under 26s on the same price as students so why not do the same for the union.
Changing of prices; new years eve is one of the last times I attended the union (exluding varsity) because of last minute change of price. Due to the huge queue the union staff thought it would be a great idea to up the price. Yeah maybe getting the extra £3 of myself and many others seemed a good move at the time but £3.50/saturday from then onwards may of been a better choice.
Sorry if a few points are outdated, I think it just shows how much the union has gone downhill thanks to it’s own unresponsive nature.
Dan
Personally, as a first year, I love the union. Someone said to me once that it’s a bit of a dive, and I was actually shocked because to me it’s a fantastic place. I know of no other union with a nightclub with 3 separate rooms (main club, junction and side room) AND a completely separate bar area (Taff, woo!) and the games room and all the other stuff. To lose this would be a horrible blow to the union, and an expensive and painstaking one, when all that’s really needed is maybe a small revamp, like the proposed junction bar for making it into a food hall in the daytime. This I thought was a good idea, the rest of the plans not so. Especially making there one entrance to the union, from senghennydd road.
The proposed single entrance is the worst idea out of all of them, in my opinion. I’m from University Hall, so where would the bus go then? It can’t get to the back, so basically you’d have a load of students, every hour, every day, randomly standing on Park Place with no shelter and no entry into the union, to grab a fiver from the cashpoint or whatever, unless you go all the way around to the other side. And don’t counter that by saying ‘use the hsbc cashpoint’ because it’s hardly ever working and with only one there’s be queueing issues.
As for the ‘social learning and network space’, that is a load of rubbish. They tried to do that in my school with a new 6th form centre and before my year was even allowed to go into it it was constantly trashed and the only thing working was the tv because that’s all people in there did. It was all modern and ‘cool’, but also rubbish, shoddily made and inappropriate, and in complete disregard for developments elsewhere (it required the sacrifice of an overflow dining room). Obviously the union is different, but for these ‘improvements’ we’re losing a lot of very good stuff. I don’t think it’s worth it in the slightest.
Sounds like the ‘learning and socialising or whatever’ space is basicly them not quite knowing what to do with the redevelopment. “We dont know what they want or will use so erm.. lets have it as a utility space!”
Getting rid of the Taf seems pretty stupid, it doesnt have much atmosphere, I’ll give you that but they should just refit it or something so its a bit more welcomming than its current travel lodge-esque décor.
And as for getting rid of the two entrances, thats just really anoying.. having to cross the bridge and double back on yourself to get to the bits you actually want to use is going to be well anoying.
I think people are getting confused here, AFAIK the Single Entrance means thus:
One Entrance from the Senghennydd Road side of the Union, as opposed to the current two.
There would still be a front entrance to the union. Simply the back would have one more accessible entrance, rather than one meandering through the mall, and the other going up two flights of steps just to reach the great hall concourse area.
I also like how the official plans manage to spell Senghennydd completely wrong multiple times. Senghenyth indeed..
I just want to thank everyone for participating in this forum.
A lot of good information is coming out of this forum that will be able to feed into the whole consultation process.
Please remember we are not forcing these plans through at all, and they are in no way the final plans for the redevelopment of your Union.
This is the start of a process that will go well into the start of the next academic year. I know the timing now isn’t ideal (we made them available as soon as possible – it wasn’t a subversive or underhand tactic as some people will have you believe), but when handing the project over to my successor I will recommend more open forums and meetings for students to feed into the process when they don’t have exams on.
I agree with the above comment, the retail space would make a nice improvement, as would a refurbishment of solus.
Reading the section on the taf/ sabbs offices, this is quite a large space for an open plan office, exactly how many extra office spaces are required??
The taf is a great bar that I often use and do suffer from the lack of a space to sit! There are a lot of quieter bars in town.
I rerallty hope the comments here are recognised.
It seems as though the sheer amount of negative comments being posted here make it clear that these plans do not reflect what the student body want. Yes, the student union may need revamping, but does this honestly need to involve transforming it into, what i can only imagine as ‘pointless space’?
Is the student’s union not, the STUDENT’S union? it seems that these plans are giving priority to these so-called sabbatical officers, and hypothetical ‘future’ students (that apparently will not feel any need to socialise)and ignoring the needs of the majority of real cardiff students. Similarly to comments i have read above, a large part of my decision to apply to cardiff university was my impression of the student’s union. It seemed to be a busy, friendly place that put the majority of emphasis on social events – and this was vital in moulding my opinion of the university. The appeal of cardiff for many people is it’s correct balance of academic and social priority. These new ‘plans’ change this completely.
As for solus and the taff, there is clearly an outrage at the prospect of removing the taff. For solus however, although there is undoubtedly competition from commercial clubs in the city, the union does not advertise events at solus enough to sway students back towards their own union. I for one enjoyed ‘spin’ the one time i went to it, despite the fact there were about 15 people in there..but many people i spoke to did not even know there was a new wednesday event! hardly any obvious advertising campaigns were made, apart from a few posters around talybont. The union may need a revamp, but the declining support of the student body it it’s biggest problem. The committee, or whoever is in charge of these plans should work on regaining student support for the events that make the union what it has always been, they should not be making plans to turn students even further away.
Bad!! The removal/relocation/resizing of the student union’s most used services in favour of ‘social learning and network space’ is insanity. As previously stated, the several libraries on campus are ideal places for studying and networking and the union’s current setup makes it a social hub. It would also seem from the amount of retail units proposed that the union we all know and love is being turned into a shopping mall/study room. I know the urge may be felt to want to keep the union up to date but why change a winning formula?
In response to some of the earlier comments, the sabbatical officers run the union and currently have their offices on the third floor (except the gair rhydd editor whose office is within student media on the fourth) and they have a team of staff to support them so the amount of space allocated to this is not unreasonable compared to the amount of space they currently take up.
It is important to reiterate here that this is a consultation process so if you have an opinion on this, good or bad, e-mail SUBuildingDevelopment@cf.ac.uk or attend Student Council in Junction Bar at 6:30pm on Tuesday 20th May.
Its our union, seriously, make your voice heard!!
What a lively forum!
Now I am no longer a student, though I do proudly have a Lifetime membership (Which I am still angry about having to pay for, for it was free just two years before me and then £5 for life the year after).
I wonder if anyone on this Forum remembers the old Taf, which I sadly only got to see on my open day but am assured was far superior to the IKEA showroom which stands in its place. This was a more natural pub similar to the Pen and Wig in style, but alas I am digressing.
The Taf makes the Union, I wouldn’t have met 2/3 of the people I did at Uni without it, societies like Act one are always frequenting it, also Cf10 is used to put on productions, seasonal parties and charity events in the society. Though more meeting rooms will be a great benefit.
I shudered when reading the above article, the ideas seem consistent with the minds that decided reality TV was the big way forward, also the union will never be a shopping centre, the only shop that is any good is Blackwell’s and the offlicence when it’s open.
In summation of the best ideas I have read in this forum, revamp solus (a bit more advertising and special events wouldn’t hurt either), keep the Taf (though I feel it needs more atmosphere and indeed seating), keep the games room (It was the only room open on the last day of the football season this year which was a terrible decision I might add), forget the Gym and office moves (the gym is unneccesary and who goes to the Union to see societies officers? Not enough to warrant their predomination in these affairs I bet). Keep Cardiff Union the best in the UK, don’t make it as dull and lifeless as John Major!
Its fine how it is!
The student union is set out in a well managed and accesssible way. There is no need to change it. To get rid of the taff is a rediculous idea. Perhaps the union does need some up dating, but the plans proposed are too radical and will deminish the nature of the student union, in the sense that the union should be about relaxing and having a good time, and not more areas focussed on work. Arent there enough already?
I agree that it is fine as it is at the moment. Why is it that we are changing something that works, and yet things which need a lot of investment,THE SPORTS FACILITIES, are not changing! And whoever decided to get rid of CF10 is the biggest idiot ever!
I’m also against those plans, I believe its a good idea to get a bigger gym and to have some form of “social learning space”, but there shouldn’t be a need to remove the best things the union has to offer.
if CF10, the games room, the taf and the solus were removed, i’d have no reason to go to the union apart for commitee meetings.
I believe CF10 should be better advertised or moved to a more publicly avaiable area of the union, and the prices/quality of coffee should be improved.
the solus should at least run on the weekends, thats when I go. TigerTiger, oceana and revolution as well as all the other venues offer too much competition.
the taf is great as it is. Advertise the thursday and tuesday offers and you’ll probably find more people going there for those nights at least.
i also think there is a need for 24 hour study rooms, or at least late hours study rooms. Trevithick has the cafeteria and computer rooms but they aren’t the best working areas.
lastly: i haven’t read every comment made here, but i’m impressed that johnny takes the time to read them and answer them in his own time, especially seeing as he probably also has exams.
Yes numbers in Solus have been dropping but is the answer to give up and reduce its size? Surely it would make more sense to develope club nights to draw students back in or revamp it at its current size so it can compete with other venues? The loss of the Taf would be devestating! As far as i can see it is thriving. It’s a key meeting place for students before nights out and a great place for a few drinks after lectures or exams. What Uni doesnt have a SU pub!? It’s madness!!!
Judging from the majority of the comments shown here the plans are not too popular. The planners want to remove the most popular areas and replace them with rooms that people just will not use.
I am extremely disappointed with the proposed plans to redevelop the entire students union. Cardiff was voted one of the top universities due to its fantastic SU, so to re-design and make dramatic changes to it would be a let-down. The taff bar has a brilliant atmosphere, selling cheap alcohol and providing themed nights such as bar ftse. CF10 is ALWAYS full, so to change/remove this would be such a shame. And why make senghennydd the main entrance?! No-one even uses that! If these plans go ahead, I am certain that the majority of students will choose to go into town. Please save the taff and solus!x
We appreciate all the work that has gone into this. I have one word for this, 3 letters w-t-(and the letter after ‘e’).
There is the saying “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”
If that doesn’t get the message across don’t know what will?
I echo the outrage of students across the university. If this isn’t madness I don’t know what is.
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=17182301986
haven’t got much to say… i agree with some of the plans – the senghenydd road ground floor, and the 4th floor refurbs – but some of it is ludicrous.
top downwards, the games room… yeah, so it’s not always rammed full, but as a place to go to have a good evening it’s unbeatable. can’t tell me it costs much to run the room with one member of staff on the bar, and lights over each table that’s in use?? but with the snooker club doing so well recently, then it’d be silly to throw that away.
the taf and solus are key parts of the cardiff experience. there is no place like the taf to go before a night out… it has atmosphere, cheap drinks, big screens to watch the sport that’s going on, and fun stuff going on. solus definitely needs changing, but not reducing… from what i hear it’s been the same story for the last few years, and frankly you can see why it’s losing it’s appeal… change the tracks!! don’t run the same pre-planned playlist of current music – rock – cheese – DnB – RnB etc etc… you can’t please everyone at the same time!! think about what town does, the music they play, and work on those grounds.
finally, CF10 and the shop. personally, the shop is ideal where it is, available as it is. maybe it’d be better if it was directly available from the senghennydd road entrance, but it doesn’t make much difference. it’s convenient, sells everything that a student will want at the time, as well as things that a student will want to remember their time. keep it, and promote it!! CF10 is amazing… does the best breakfast in town, both value and quality, and like the shop is convenient. promotion is required, not just getting rid of it completely. being a hockey player, we meet before games at the back of the union and the ability to just run upstairs and grab a sausage and bacon baguette for the journey is unbeatable, or sandwiches from the shop. maybe it’s just my biased view, but those particular aspects of the union are what make is so useful.
now realising how “haven’t got much to say” appeared misleading. oh well… talk about touching a nerve.
Ben
I reckon an Emergency General Meeting should be called.
To me, these plans are proof that our current exec aren’t caring for the students’ interests as they were elected to.
And yes I know these are only plans at the moment but much effort and cost have gone into them? We should have been consulted nearer the beginning.
They show something that I’ve suspected for a long time – the Union management are so out of touch with what the students want and need from their Union. I think they have shot themselves in the foot this time and heads need to start rolling – starting with the General Manager.
Didn’t he try to turn Solus into a library before? And got stopped by some previous years exec and only just got away with his job? And now he’s at it again!
Come on Jonny represent us as you were elected to. DO something.
An emergency meeting, as you might like to call it…..
Attend Student Council in Junction Bar at 6:30pm on Tuesday 20th May.
This is the meeting you want to go to and you will be able to dicuss all the ideas you want there.
Hope this helps.
Johnny Cox
You’ve been presented here with a multitude of generally well-constructed and concise arguments, pretty much all of which contain constructive criticism and practical ideas for development. I think you’re looking at a real student satisfaction survey here, not to mention the rapidly growing groups appearing on facebook, and the governing body of the union would do well to pay more attention to these than to any so-called “official” surveys. However I understand its gotta be difficult to stand up in meetings and attempt to convince gerying governers that facebook is a reliable source public opinion, but i’ll bet there’s a lot more opinion from a much wider variety of students there than the official survey reached.
Cardiff Students Union is widely regarded as one of the BEST unions in the country, but we’re scared that with changes as drastic as these the only way will be down.
The general concensus seems to be upgrade Solus, save the Taf, CF10 and the Games Room and let the offices expand elsewhere – perhaps into some of that unused University owned space Rasputin mentioned.
Anyway, best of luck with your re-planning Johnny, this is a massive issue and I hope you can come through for us.
As a member of this year’s Sabbatical team, i am saddened to hear the following two comments
“Who are these sabatical officers until this I’ve not only never heard of them let alone them participating in the running and overall experience of the union.” Samantha King
“who goes to the Union to see societies officers? Not enough to warrant their predomination in these affairs I bet” Richard
It is a sad but true fact that the majority of students do not know exactly what Sabbatical Officers do, nor are they aware of the ways in which they are able to help students. To my understanding, this is part of the reason that it was felt that the move of the Sabbatical offices should be made to the 2nd floor (reception level). This would enable Sabbatical Officers, the directors of the Students’ Union, to be more accessible to students. However, just like the rest of the plans, this element of the new building is still only a suggestion, and is open for comment.
It seems to me that the majority of negative comments stem from people feeling that they have not been consulted. I cannot emphasise enough that this is a consultative process.
NOTHING IS SET IN STONE.
I would hate for anyone to feel that this is an ‘us v. them situation’, as this simply is not the case. This is YOUR Students’ Union, and as a member of staff at the Union, I was elected by you, I work for you- so there is no divide. By making the plans public, the Executive of the Union are appealing for comments and suggestions. These plans were never meant to be final; they reflect four years worth of surveys and discussions, drafts and re-drafts. The release of these latest plans is just another step in the consultative process.
I understand that this is not an easy time to think about this as the majority of you are still undergoing essays and exams. Please feel assured that this process is a long one, and not one which will be ‘pushed through quickly’.
If any of you are experiencing exam stress or just need someone to talk to, please do not hesitate to contact the Student Advice Centre http://www.cardiffstudents.com/student_life/advice_centre
or the Student Support Centre http://www.cardiff.ac.uk/studentsupport/
Best of luck in the next few weeks and please feel free to come to the third floor and speak to me about these plans, or any other worries.
Just FYI the ‘unused space’ Rasputin mentions is the land between the new Optometry building to the south, Cambrian Point student accommodation to the north, Maindy Road to the east and the railway to the west, it’s currently a brown field site which still houses the old rail yards, a lot of wooden sleepers and a lot of other rubbish. Cardiff Uni does indeed have plans to use the site in the near future, they’re going to build a wood burning power station on it to power the University and Union buildings and government buildings in the civic centre.
all,
like others that have posted on here, i am an ex-student, and a proud owner of a life membership card.
a few years ago, the taf was redeveloped from a “dark and dingy proper pub” to the “ikea showroom” it is now.
At the time this was due to “the changing nature of student habbits” or something.
At the time, this was an unpopular decision, and seeing some of the posts on here, i guess it still is.
However, to be neutral, i was also still here when T396 turned into Solus.
That cost a fortune, and ultimalty was a decent decision.
These revamps costed a considerable amount of money, and took a long time to consult on, but ultimatley fell foul of one key aspect, the lack of asking the acutal students. in the modern multi-channeled world of communication, this should be not be happening.
what is being propsed here is something far more radical with far greater ramifications for the union.
i wonder how much money has already been wasted before asking the student populus?
however, to remain as neutral as i can be, there is also a lot of factors (profit of the union per area etc.) that the general population of the union does not know, or really need to know.
throughtout the changes detailed above i was the housemate of the president at the time, so had almost the best understanding of what reasons lurked behind the changes. some were purely financial, and at the end of the day, the SU is a business, and needs to be run like one.
there is always going to be an element of dewy eyed nostalga about these things, but as a semi regular user of the union still, taf and gigs etc, i feel that these proposals are badly informed, and if i was any judge of these things, will ultimatley fail.
The main problem I see with this is – does it not seem like this is being announced at a time when most students are wrapped up in exams and about to go home for summer? An ideal time to slide through plans like this hoping that people will be too busy to make much of a fuss and by the time we all come back after the summer ‘the ball will be rolling’ and it’ll be too late to stop!
Will there be a referendum for the people who are actually to use it and who it is supposed to represent?
If not then whats the point of having a ‘Students Union’ in the first place.
The plans themselves say that the current union caters for ‘a minority of the students’, but as a bog standard 3 year undergraduate (which makes up most of the student population), I don’t know anyone who doesn’t use the Taff or solus and this seems a load of rubbish – where did that data come from anyway?
Please let common sense prevail and at least let us have some kind of vote rather than simply email ‘the committee’ which we can’t even be sure will accept the view of the student majority after the plan that it has come up with!!
My views on this are fairly clear (http://www.gairrhydd.com/columnists/870/bland-designs/), so here are just a few minor things:
*_Claire [#43]:_ I think the new plans will mean that the union will lose money hand over fist.
The main income in the union is from solus and the taf. Reducing the size will reduce the capacity and thus reduce the income. Has this been looked into?*
- I think the plan is to make less money but spend even less, thus increasing profit. Sad, I know.
Claire [#43]: I’m hoping there will be more windows added too. I suffer from mild SAD and thus love as much natural light as I can get my eyeballs on! – There are plans for ‘voids’ cutting through several floors, which essentially means skylights all the way down to floors 2 or even 1, which is good news if you feel that the Union is too dark at the moment.
Claire [#44]: I admit I haven’t read this weeks gair rhydd, but just looking at the headlines I think they’re to blaim for all this uproar! It’s a bit over dramatised. – I hardly think the headline “Our New Union? You Decide.” is overdramatised! Furthermore, the front page presents only the facts – nothing more. Resisting bias in presenting a story such as this is incredibly difficult, believe me, but our editorial team has done so and very well too.
harriet [#54]: Is the student’s union not, the STUDENT’S union? – Sorry, that’s just a brilliant mistake that made me laugh lots.
Mark [#70]: Just FYI the ‘unused space’ Rasputin mentions is the land between the new Optometry building to the south, Cambrian Point student accommodation to the north, Maindy Road to the east and the railway to the west, it’s currently a brown field site which still houses the old rail yards, a lot of wooden sleepers and a lot of other rubbish. Cardiff Uni does indeed have plans to use the site in the near future, they’re going to build a wood burning power station on it to power the University and Union buildings and government buildings in the civic centre. – Thanks Mark. Would you say yourself the results of this are going to be sufficient to outweigh the problems we’re currently experiencing with the University encroaching on the Union’s turf for study space? Not a leading question in any way – I’d be interested to know more about the planned development. Thanks.
Richard [#74]: Now I am no longer a student, though I do proudly have a Lifetime membership (Which I am still angry about having to pay for, for it was free just two years before me and then £5 for life the year after). – Out of interest, how much are you paying?
I just really hope that people are emailing the committee about this – even if its not listened to its better than nothing!
SUBuildingDevelopment@cardiff.ac.uk
Lets hope common sense prevails – then again when did that last happen?
With regards to bad turn out at SU events (e.g Solus)... cleary what I’m going to say is going to upset someone, but the regular DJ’s who play Solus aren’t very interesting in what they play…
I dunno if thats a management choice and there being told to play stuff from certain playlists, but the fact still remains… but I used to go to Solus Monday every week with out fail, and quite often Friday as well…
But I kid you not after 6 month’s of hardly any variation in the music I got so bored, I stopped going. Of course people want to hear music they love when they are out, but its also awesome when you go to a club and the DJ feels the crowd and plays them stuff they love, and kinda more importantly might love.
Nothing better than coming home with a new tune in your head!
Rather than going to Solus and hearing the same boring rubbish indie, mixed with a few other tracks, oh and some pendulum/prodigy for good luck.
Laux
p.s Justice “we are your friends” an awesome track, but that was fresh a year ago!
Today I was in the Taf (it was packed) followed by Solus. In Solus I was treated very disrespectfully; not by fellow visitors, but by bar staff and bouncers.
The “low-point” of the evening was when I was told that the drink that I had been paying £1.50 for all night was now £2.20. I inquired as to why, and I was responded with: “Because that’s the fucking price”, and then the drink taken away from me. Following this, I asked for the drink again, and, when not happy with the increase in price, when I asked to speak to a manager I was refused.
Later on, after paying this price, I did speak to a manager, who told me this was the correct price, as it was the bar’s choice as to what prices they sell thieir drink.
Perhaps this should be the choice of the democratic voting of the students and not what the undemocratic money-seeking non-student managers of the Union deem a good price.
I really hope the Taf and Solus remain open. And I hope the are run for the wants and needs of those people who use them.
Today I was in the Taf (it was packed) followed by Solus. In Solus I was treated very disrespectfully; not by fellow visitors, but by bar staff and bouncers.
The “low-point” of the evening was when I was told that the drink that I had been paying £1.50 for all night was now £2.20. I inquired as to why, and I was responded with: “Because that’s the fucking price”, and then the drink taken away from me. Following this, I asked for the drink again, and, when not happy with the increase in price, when I asked to speak to a manager I was refused.
Later on, after paying this price, I did speak to a manager, who told me this was the correct price, as it was the bar’s choice as to what prices they sell their drink.
Perhaps this should be the choice of the democratic voting of the students and not what the undemocratic money-seeking non-student managers of the Union deem a good price.
I really hope the Taf and Solus remain open. And I hope they are run for the wants and needs of those people who use them.
p.s.s
sometimes things don’t need to be hugely popular/make profits to be worthwhile. say in regards of a games room.
if solus is losing money/statistically failing then that illustrates that a change in the way management works needs to be introduced.
destorying something which has alot of potential is dumb. because essentially solus is a quite a good location, its closer to for people who live near the whitchurch end of town, and its less of a trek back home for alot of people.
x
Can anyone who currently goes to the Taf give me one good reason as to why they won’t visit one of these “social learning area” for a drink? Because from what the plans say(and not the shite people are spouting on here), some of the social learning areas will have a bar(like the Taf),pool tables(like the Taf/games room),tables + chairs(like the Taf), sofas(like the Taf) and bean bags(the Taf could do with a few of those). Sounds alot like a bar to me.
But just to clarify(and I hope Jonny backs me up), in plain simple English: THERE WILL STILL BE A BAR IN THE UNION!
I’m actually miffed at how stupid people are acting over these plans. Everyone needs to jump off the “we’re losing our bar” bandwagon. And even if the union expect us to all go there with our coursework(which they don’t) who in the hell is gonna? Students will obviously use these areas to do whatever they want i.e. drink, chill out, socialise etc. Biggest mountain outta a molehill ever.
It puzzles me why we are even being queried on this – it may be ‘our’ union now, but IF it is finished on time in 8years, the majority of its future users will have had no say in its re-organisation; many will never have known it as we do now anyway.
Also…if we have managed to get to Uni in the first place, surely we dont find having two entrances to a building ‘confusing’
I say subsidise the drinks (alcoholic and soft – this will draw students away from the cheaper nights in town), do a general revamp, and get some variety between Fun Factory, Access etc. If those things don’t change along with the layout of the building, then the union will not generate enough to make this a worthwhile enterprise – no point having a well laid out building if nobody is going to come in
Personally I think the union is great as it is but also does need to change to suit future needs – but is asking current students the way to go – send questionnaires to colleges?
These plans stink of sabs wanting to leave themselves a legacy. There is no real need to modernise the students union, well it could do with a lick of paint but throwing thousands of pounds for a radical redesign seems pointless when some slight alterations would maje the SUan infinitly better place, some variation on the tracklist in solus would be a good start. Polit bouncers woud be another. The arguments put forward are shallow and see through, we dont need more retail space, what we have isnt, and is never going to be filled. A redevelopmnt isnt going to change the fact that no buisness in their right mind will want a shop on sengenydd road. Why can we not see that we have an enviable SU that is the pride of cardiff university and the sooner next years sabs are in to scrap the plans the better…
At last! Somewhere for societies! At least by the time it’s finished Links might have somewhere to keep all their equipment that’s actually used at the union…at the union! Rather than in committee’s flat’s and the St John HQ!
Shame you’re getting rid of the games room and the Taf, but I understand there will be other provisions. Can’t really understand where the snooker society will go, that wasn’t resolved.
As for the rest of the plans…the union does need a re-vamp, it’s not the most pleasant of night out,but it’s cheap. I can understand the overheads, but maybe a change in the nights offered? Same people, same surroundings, same music? Gets a bit tedious week after week.
I’m not too sure about these “social learninig and networking” spaces, what I am sure of is that it’d be hard to study in. The idea is there – a library you can talk in. But it doesn’t really work.
I cannot believe your concidering getting rid of the taff and solus, instead of not competing with the clubs in town, you should first think about revamping (lick of paint, new lighting) the social areas or perhaps a change in music. If it wasnt for these two areas which were organsied nights in my freshers years. Apart from people who i lived with in halls i would have found it difficult to meet first years as cardiff doesnt seem to organise nights out like other univeisties
Lastly, Cardiff university not only has a responsibility to have learning spaces suh as the libary but also socialising areas as well.
I certainly wouldnt be happy coming to cardiff in 20 years time and realsing they do not have there own union club let alone bar…..... i dont think people will change that much in 20 years time, infact they will have probably less money…..
Re: Julia (#82)
“Can’t really understand where the snooker society will go, that wasn’t resolved.”
I’m afraid we wouldn’t really go anywhere, we’d have to fold. We even own our own table (and even those who don’t play know how big snooker tables are), where the hell would we put this without the Games Room? It’s not as if we could stick it anywhere else. In the article it says that “The Snooker club run their tournaments in the Games Room” – we do more than just that, it’s the only place we can function, full stop. It’s a weekly home venue for our Cardiff Snooker League games (in which we annually enter 4 teams, and in which we have 2 committee members, myself included), it’s a venue used at all opening hours by our members (of which anyone is welcome to become) for practice and competition against each other, whether friendly or formal, and it’s the site of all our events (except socials).
This is without doubt the best story gair rhydd has had in years, and their coverage of it has been excellent. Amy and the team have been working their arses off for weeks over this, and I think we should all be proud of having such a responsible team of student media. They have the courage to break sensitive stories like this without resorting to sensationalism, and they have dealt with this one in a balanced and intelligent manner. Bravo.
Neil, my point exactly.
I thought Cardiff was all for societies and being sociable!
I just want to make it clear that these plans are only proposals and will not go ahead until they have been revised after looking at all of the feedback. It will then go to a cross-campus vote. People are getting pretty angry when they really don’t need to. They just need to communicate their feedback, positive and negative, and we’ll listen.
To answer a few points:
Pete: “Elected officials – we voted you in to stand up for the students of Cardiff University. Do the right thing and quash these plans now. Otherwise, you’re basically cowardly pawns”
*You did indeed. This is why we’re asking for your opinions. We’re not going to quash the plans, we’re going make changes here and there subject to student feedback. Like Jonny said, I resent being called a cowardly pawn. I think if you could see us standing up for students in meetings with staff you’d retract that comment immediately.
Tom Clarke: “These plans stink of sabs wanting to leave themselves a legacy. There is no real need to modernise the students union, well it could do with a lick of paint”
*It will not be our ‘legacy’ to leave. We’re gone at the end of July and are currently passing all of this over to the next team. Being a Sabb is a tough job, there is no time to worry about what legacy we’re going to leave behind.
Mike : “I just really hope that people are emailing the committee about this – even if its not listened to its better than nothing!”
*Trust me when I say, it WILL be listened to. It would be counter-productive if we didn’t!
“The main problem I see with this is – does it not seem like this is being announced at a time when most students are wrapped up in exams and about to go home for summer? An ideal time to slide through plans like this hoping that people will be too busy to make much of a fuss and by the time we all come back after the summer ‘the ball will be rolling’ and it’ll be too late to stop!
Will there be a referendum for the people who are actually to use it and who it is supposed to represent?!!”
*This is just the start of the consultation. It is not in our interest to slide through the plans, where would that leave us? It will go on well into next year and after the plans are revised subject to student feedback, there will definitely be a referendum. I know Andy Button-Stephens, President Elect, has already decided upon this.
Alfred Ariwi : “There is the saying “If it ain’t broke don’t fix it”
*People who regularly use the Union (Societies, student media, SVC, people who use the toilets!) will agree that parts of the Union are in a bad state and don’t just need a lick of paint as has been suggested. We have a wonderful opportunity to make our Union a much better environment and we should not waste it.
Peter Gardener: “Its fine how it is! The student union is set out in a well managed and accesssible way. There is no need to change it”
*At best, the Union is a warren of corridors, stairs and illogical planning. You only have to speak to visitors and new students who are completely baffled by how it all works. I constantly have to give awkward directions for people to get to the Societies Area. Considering we have at least 8,000 students involved in Societies, this is not good enough.
harriet : “it seems that these plans are giving priority to these so-called sabbatical officers”
*Priority to us? Or making us available to students? I represent International and Postgraduate students and, not for lack of trying, people still don’t know how to find me and what I have to offer. Our Education and Welfare Officer, Jo Plummer, can give help and advice about your course, your house, how to stay safe (she can give out rape alarms, condoms) and yet she struggles to get students to recognise her service. While a lot of this is about communication, our visibility in the Union is poor and only those bold few that will venture into an area that doesn’t look student friendly, know we exist.
David: “I also dont see the point in moving all the offices down a floor. the logical solution for me would be, if the offices have to be moved, move them to where the gym is now and move the gym into the union. this would allow a larger and more spacious gym aswell as the offices being in a quiet well located building next to the union”
*Then the Union’s staff would be working in a University building. That really can’t happen, how would be maintain our credibility when lobbying the University over student issues?
Claire : “I think the new plans will mean that the union will lose money hand over fist.The main income in the union is from solus and the taf. Reducing the size will reduce the capacity and thus reduce the income”
*In fact, our main LOSS of money is through these areas. We could easily survive without them all together but, of course, we don’t want to do that. We want to just make them better and more efficient so you guys still have somewhere to go.
LJ : “Getting rid of OUR space in order to create more offices and meeting rooms:
The offices and meeting rooms are still your space”
*The Offices are for things such as the Advice and Representation centre, the Societies area, the AU centre, SVC. The meeting rooms are used far more by students than anyone else.
Please email SUBuildingDevelopment@cardiff.ac.uk with your feedback. Try not to be aggressive and make sure you highlight anything you definitely like about the plans so we know that side of things too. Jonny is responding to most of the emails answering any questions and is working really hard to put them into a feedback document ready for the architects. Thank you to everyone who has posted, just please remember that we will not go ahead with anything you’re not happy with.
Essay over,
Sally Airey,
Societies, Postgraduate and International Officer
Thomas Caroll [79] said
“Can anyone who currently goes to the Taf give me one good reason as to why they won’t visit one of these “social learning area” for a drink?”
Because if it fulfills the function it seems to be intending to, it will be full of people who are working! Not all of the areas will have a bar or ‘alchohol provision’ from the sound of it. As I said earlier, the main reason students go to the Taff is to have a drink, relax, get away from the stress of work… and this will be very difficult if people on the next bean bag (!!) are studiously writing essays!
Which is another point- if I want to watch tv, sit on a bean bag and have people talking around me while I work I’ll stay at home! Don’t need to walk all the way to the union for that!
That I think is the main problem – this area will either end up being a place to go for a drink, or a place to go to work. I cannot see how it will work as both.
Save the Taf!