Paul Verhoeven made Floris, the most popular TV series ever in Holland. Wat Zien Ik?, Keetje TIppel, Soldier of Orange and Spetters drew millions to the box office, and Turkish Delight was honoured as the best Dutch film of the 20th Century. After The Fourth Man the acclaimed and controversial director went to Hollywood where he found new success with films like RoboCop, Total Recall, Basic Instinct and Starship Troopers. Twenty years on, Verhoeven returns to the Netherlands with the thriller Black Book.
Were you happy to make a film in the Netherlands after twenty years?
Most of all, I was glad to have the opportunity to make a film from a script that Gerard Soeteman and I have worked on for twenty years. For a long time we couldn’t get the story to work. The basic idea stayed the same: a group of Jews are betrayed and killed in the Biesbosch and the main character hunts down the traitor. Originally, it had a male lead. And that gave us a problem: we didn’t know how to get him to credibly infiltrate the German command. Three years ago Gerard solved the puzzle: the lead should be a woman. Then all the scenes we envisaged suddenly fell into place.
How would you describe Black Book?
It’s a thriller inspired by true events. All the story lines in Black Book have their basis in true events. Most characters are based on real people.
Did the ‘black book’ ever exist?
You mean the so-called ‘little black book’? Absolutely. Plenty has been written about it. Gerard first came across it in the book Moordenaarswerk by Hans van Straten that was published in the 60s. Gerard immediately thought it was a good start for a script. The ‘little black book’ was the diary of a Mr. De Boer, a lawyer in The Hague who was shot in the Goudenregenstraat just after the war. The killers were never found. During the war, De Boer negotiated between the German army command in The Hague and the resistance to try and prevent unnecessary bloodshed. The resistance would assassinate people and the Germans would exact revenge by shooting hostages in the street. When I was six years old, I was made to walk past those bodies. De Boer’s black book, which probably contained names of traitors and collaborators – all the way to the top – was never found.
If Soldier of Orange was a heroic story, how would you characterise Black Book?
As a correction to the heroic Soldier of Orange. Black Book is a more realistic depiction of history. That is the main reason why I wanted to make this film. I wanted to show in an absorbing way what reality was like then. Not black and white, but in shades of grey. The film follows on from the book Grijs Verleden by Chris van der Heyden from 2001, in which the writer reassesses the past. It used to be conventional wisdom that the Dutch and the resistance were heroes and the Germans and their Dutch sympathisers were villains. Van der Heyden takes a fresh look at the Netherlands during the war. A post-modern look with plenty of alternative interpretations. People were neither heroes or villains. They could be heroic while behaving like villains, and vice versa. Jan Campert’s story is a good illustration of that (Campert, resistance fighter and author of one of the most famous anti-German poems of the war, was recently claimed to have behaved dishonourably in concentration camp Neuengamme, and possibly killed by fellow inmates). He had been placed on a pedestal, but now his legacy is in question.
You emphasise that Black Book is also entertainment.
Of course, films are a wonderful cross between art and business. The ultimate goal is to combine those opposites in some brilliant way. That’s what makes for a film of lasting value and commercial success. That’s what I always strive for: an entertaining film that appeals to a broad audience, from professor to shop assistant, that remains worthwhile for decades. Apart from David Lean few people have achieved that.
Are Rachel and Ronnie also inspired by real people?
In Rachel a number of people have been merged. Both resistance fighters like Esmée van Eeghen and Kitty ten Have, as well as an artist like Dora Paulsen. Gerard and I fused them into one character. Ronnie’s character is fictional, but in those days there were a lot of girls like that. Who went wherever the wind blew them. Politically she’s very naïve. Many people were, on both sides. The NSB, the Dutch Nazi party, had lots of members who were fanatical Nazis. And I don’t mean people who joined in 1941 for opportunistic reasons, but people who had been members since 1933 and who had lost their jobs as a result, but were even more zealous as a consequence.
Apart from the script, were there other reasons why you were glad to be working in Holland again?
The best thing was to be able to work with the biggest acting talent, These are actors of the highest quality. In America I had almost no access to that category. I would have loved to make a film with Nicole Kidman or Tom Cruise, but it’s almost impossible. The only way is a special project that’s tailored to the star. So in my American productions I have never been able to retain a fixed group of actors. The way in which in Holland I worked several times with Rutger Hauer, Monique van der Ven, Renée Soutendijk, and now again with Dolf de Vries and Derek de Lint.
How did you choose the leads?
Carice and Halina are both wonderfully talented and dedicated professionals. They are very gifted and have great intuition, which you need to really get under the skin of someone who lived 50 years ago. They’re also very attractive, charismatic and have strong personalities. Because Carice is more introverted Rachel’s part was better for her. Halina’s extraverted-ness was better suited to Ronnie. She’s a get up and go girl. We auditioned over thirty actresses for these parts, selected by casting directors Hans Kemna and Job Gosschalk, but they were head and shoulders above the others. After fifteen minutes I knew. And to think I presented a Golden Calf to Carice for Minoes.
And why Thom Hoffman?
I knew Thom from The Fourth Man. But I didn’t specify I wanted to work with him. Like so many other actors he was proposed by Hans and Job. We chose him because there is a sense of danger about him that fits the part, but mostly because of the chemistry between him and Carice. There were other actors that I thought were right for the part, but none of them had the necessary sexual chemistry with Carice. Thom and Carice did a scene when they’re very close to each other on the train, and you felt the tension immediately.
Any disadvantages about working in Holland again?
Well, I wouldn’t call it a disadvantage, but in a Dutch context Black Book is an enormously big and complex production. There is not much experience in Holland with that kind of scale of production, and that can be difficult.
You didn’t consider hiring experienced Americans?
No, I wanted Dutch people to gain experience so the film would also have social value. When Joris Ivens made a film in China, he would get a local crew, “so they take something away from it too. I’m only here for six months, but they’ll learn a thing or two while I’m here.” I thought that was a nice gesture, and I’ve always remembered it. Now I have the chance, I wanted to do something similar. In 1995 two special stamps were issued to celebrate the Year of the Film: one featured a scene from Turks Fruit (Turkish Delight) the other a portrait of Joris Ivens. And now I’m following in his footsteps. Gerard and I have had a number of heated arguments about Ivens. Gerard hates him for his communist sympathies and his falsified images but I’m a big fan. Ivens has made some wonderful films.
Were there many old friends in the crew?
Most of the people I used to work with are retired or dead. On Black Book I was in the same situation as with RoboCop. A fresh start with a largely new team. We had to find a new camera man anyway. I spoke to Karl Walter Lindenlaub, who did Independence Day and The Haunting, in Los Angeles. We clicked.
